Good day to the morning review readers, Inderes TV viewers and members of the Inderes community. Verneri, I think this might be something like your exit interview as an Inderes employee. It's certainly not the last time you'll be a face on Inderes TV. You are moving on to new challenges, indeed. Could you tell the viewers who haven't necessarily heard the news yet? Where are you heading?

Phew, I finally got to share this news publicly. On Tuesday, I published my final Vartti and wrote a long post on the forum. A thank-you message both to the staff. To Inderes and of course to our amazing community and forum members. So, I am jumping into portfolio manager work. I will be acting as the CEO and portfolio manager of an asset management firm called Aristoi Capital Management, alongside Antti Bergholm, running a new fund called Arvon kasvattajat. This fund focuses particularly on investing in companies that profitably and sensibly reinvest their cash flow either to grow back into the business or potentially, for example, into acquisitions. That is practically the main focus, but it is defined quite broadly. Meaning that quite a lot of companies will fit under that umbrella in turn. Investing has been a part of my life since 2009. Starting out as a passionate hobby. And when this project came up and we ironed out the details, I found it suited me like a glove. I'm glad this has come to fruition to this point and that I get to turn my passion into 100 percent work.

Yeah, congratulations on the courage to jump into a new adventure and a new opportunity! It also sounds like an investment philosophy that fits. It fits Verneri Pulkkinen perfectly. How does it feel? We've known about this since before the summer, and I've had time to get myself into this mindset too. Now the news is out. How does it feel now that it's real? How does it feel?

At the same time, I have a relieved feeling in my stomach, a slightly nervous feeling, as of course one should have. Nerves show that the matter matters to me, and I am focusing on the new challenges. But at the same time I have a kind of. My mind is very calm. I feel that this decision is the right one anyway. Of course, you can never promise in advance how you will perform as a portfolio manager or how it will go. You will only see that in practice. But the fact that this decision is right, when you follow your own passion, gives me such a tremendously calm and in a way peaceful feeling that this is definitely a step in the right direction. And now I am happy about this.

I can finally talk publicly, because these matters in the financial world that are subject to regulation, they are indeed much stricter. Internally, this. You knew in the summer, and within the company? I told them when I returned from my holidays. And even then I could only talk about the subject very superficially, that I am changing employers. And now I am glad that things are at a point where I can talk about them fully in public.

Yeah, but hey, what an amazing journey these ten years have been. You were employee number 13, and just as we were having coffee, I mentioned that this was a pivotal recruitment in the company's development arc, because after you joined the company, the very thing Inderes is widely known for today began to form. Namely, our community, which in a way has given a certain soul to this company. You came into this role, if we go back ten years. You were given a free hand and sort of just started doing it. So how? How would you describe it? What was it like to get started with that work?

It was pretty wild times. I'm super grateful that I was given a completely free hand and trust, that my work wasn't watched over too much, but I was just let go. But that also says a lot about this company's culture, that people are given a lot of freedom. But then of course you have to bear the responsibility at the same time. But that kind of thing suits me really well. I like to plan and do things myself and try things myself and then also bear the responsibility afterwards for how they turn out. Really exciting.

In the beginning Inderes was—this isn't very far from the truth, this joke that someone always threw—that back then Inderes' website had, was it 15 visitors, of which 13 were staff. Well, of course Inderes had a morning review that reached people via Nordnet, but even then the distribution came largely through Nordnet, so you might reach maybe thirty thousand readers or something like that, so you could tell companies that we reach investors. But our own website was practically completely empty and devoid of traffic. I fairly quickly observed that this is a strategically and generally quite vulnerable position, because even though you are on good terms and have good relations with Nordnet, you are still in a way just kind of. Even though it's your own business, not quite a subcontractor, but still in a way completely at the mercy of another's distribution. On social media, algorithms change constantly, and then what if someone else starts building their own distribution much more strongly and manages to capture the attention of all investors before you do? So a sense of urgency arose in me really quickly, that we need to quickly create a service that attracts people enough.

Well, of course in many ways I came to a set table, because there was already research. Now I don't remember off the top of my head how many companies, whether there were like 45 to 60 companies under research then, but there were already quite a few. And the morning review as a publication had already become an institution of its own. So on top of those it was really good to start building and growing the site's traffic with the team. At that time, Facebook was really important.

It was fantastic times. Regarding Facebook, I think the algorithms favored those of us who were active.

Who already were. I think that was one of the biggest successes back then, that we utilized Facebook Live, which not very many others did. But Zuckerberg wanted to. After all, his mind changes every couple of years. What does he want people to do? Right now it's AI stuff, but back then it was that he wanted everyone to do Facebook Live, so the algorithms rewarded you for it. And since no one else in Finland was doing it, Inderes gained visibility simply by doing it. The videos in today's viewer's eyes probably look pretty terrible, but back then it was revolutionary that someone in the financial sector dared to talk about shares publicly. That was the era. It was a big success and helped grow Inderes' reputation.

But that sense of urgency. I remember that for the first few years. I always had terrible heart palpitations after earnings season. I couldn't exercise for a month, I was so broken after every earnings season. That also tells of Inderes' maturation and structures, I think, and that we have succeeded in growing good teams and people here. Now I haven't really had those in recent years, and the earnings season.

And the earnings seasons are balanced too.

That's a good sign, but I'm only saying it because heart palpitations aren't in themselves of course, but it can illustrate that I was clearly strained. And I certainly had. I was still doing my master's studies at school at the same time, so there was kind of a double-burden on top of work. But it illustrates well that there was. At least I had a terrible urge that we need to get things done quickly. And try out a lot of things, because on social media you figure things out by trying.

Yes, indeed, the tempo of the work was really fast, but what has also stuck in my mind is that it was, and still is. It was a lot of fun. We did fun things. I believe that came across and still comes across to viewers, that there is that passion for the work. And the office back then, where I came. It was. It was a certain type of Big Brother house. That you never. You never knew when Pulkkinen would show up with a camera behind your back, and he'd have a live broadcast running and start interviewing, so there was something. There was something.

And indeed today we have these nice studios and so on, back then it was shaky footage with a cell phone camera, bad audio and. But it was sufficient. Yeah, at the time the audience liked it. I remember we got a lot of good feedback from viewers and investors, and then various video production companies started calling me saying that what you're doing looks atrocious. Don't you need help from us? Then we were like, no, we're doing it.

That's the point.

With you. We went. We went to interview the management of listed companies, and the bankers there looked like what the heck when we pulled out a tripod and cranked it up and started interviewing the management. But it was. It was. It was the spirit of those times. It's a new can-do attitude.

Exactly. I think the logic in it was just that it's sufficient, and iPhones at the time. And other phones of course. But we used iPhones. As a rule, they started to be good enough that they produced clear enough footage, that it didn't even need to be. And a big thank you to you, and I remembered. You pushed people to participate in those live videos. That helped with the work a lot, that people got started, and I thought it was fun later on, as we've shifted more towards—because Facebook stopped supporting live video algorithms in the end, and on YouTube a slightly more edited and prepared video format works better. Perhaps so. Then we moved to these recordings. So people actually had a bit of a crisis. Or this isn't live, what on earth? That was funny.

That you had to drift into it, adapt to it. Adapt. The playing field changes and that has also been great. A great success. But the thing started working, and then there started to be a lot of admiration from the outside too about how impactful and great the work is that you and Inderes are doing in this field. Big companies are like, what are you doing? What is that thing of yours? So what would you say? What what? How would you summarize? What is the secret of community building? What was set in motion back then?

A simple answer to that. Well, if I remember all those surveys correctly, when people sitting in very fancy clothes sit on the other side of the table asking what the recipe is. But at its simplest, it is just about starting to do things. For many, that is actually surprisingly difficult, because many people want to plan and then there is always a fear of failure. The wonderful thing about social media in the end is that if you mess up in a traditional way, for example by having your video just be boring, the algorithms won't show it to anyone. No, no one will see your screw-up. Of course, if you are already something, for example. Now if someone at Inderes messed up, a few more people would see it. But especially back then, the risk of messing up was pretty small. Meaning that unless you say something really stupid and inconsiderate that goes viral the wrong way, there really wasn't anything to it except just trying.

But of course, being able to just start doing things requires having substance to talk about. And that is where Inderes has a massive strength. This is. The office is full of passionate share enthusiasts, experts, analysts, and the community team. Many, like myself or even Iikka today, make videos about various international companies, showing a real passion for delving into companies and phenomena. You have things to talk about in an interesting way, so just start doing it. And when you do, you learn, and when you do, you get data from the net about what works and what doesn't. And you keep refining it. That is really the secret. I think it would be pretty easy for many expert organizations to do this themselves if they would just start experimenting. But of course I admit that often experts might speak in overly complex terms, but you learn to translate things into plain language all the time simply by doing it. That is my simple message on this. But of course you also need to have sensible things to talk about, because if you don't, then you are competing. The competition in slightly more superficial matters, if one can use such an expression, is of course really fierce, whereas in expert matters, investment stuff, the competition is perhaps somewhat less, but you really have to know what you are talking about.

Right, right. Let's stay a bit longer with nostalgia and the romance of the startup days, even though romanticizing and nostalgia are forbidden in business. But in this context, let it be allowed. You have done hundreds of company interviews, hundreds, certainly dozens of roasts. What have they been called? What is the most memorable roast? What have you done?

Well, of course I still have the first roast in mind. It was with Nixu's then-CEO Petri Kairinen, and Petri just reminded me on LinkedIn that it was apparently quite lukewarm, but still. But that was the first one. From there it started to develop.

You certainly have some kind of memory of each of those, even when you've met a lot of different CEOs and some are so wildly convinced of their stuff, and you think to yourself in your own little head. There's just no sense in what this guy is saying, and so on, so they are very different. Now there are indeed so many of them that it's almost worth watching all of them. From CEO interviews generally. Certain personalities certainly stand out. Magnusson from the Sampo group has probably left the strongest impression. Perhaps not the easiest interviewee. At the same time, I respect the absolute professionalism and focus he had so much, that he was a person. I always had the feeling that he didn't like talking about anything other than property and casualty insurance. Everything else was pointless. I kind of admired that laser-sharp focus. I think the very last interview with him. In Stockholm the atmosphere was already a bit more relaxed because he was retiring, and he might have said something other than property and casualty insurance. But I admired the fact that he is somehow very clear. The fact that any matter outside of property and casualty insurance was, I think, pretty useless in his opinion. This felt to him like things that leave a very warm memory. If only I could talk about everyone, of course.

I must give praise. To Markus Rauramo, the CEO of Fortum. One of the warmest personalities I've come to know over the years. It's fantastic. How the CEO of a big company, who is busy, always has time to go through family news. We know how our pets have been doing over the years, and he chats with the flick technicians. Always asks how I am doing. It also speaks of good leadership, that you treat all people really well. Markus definitely deserves this special mention, leaving a very warm impression now. These are of course things that I've experienced off-camera, since we don't ask about his personal news in the interview, but still. But anyway, just a few highlights like this.

Good, good highlight from the roasts. I have to bring up. Do you remember Tommi Tervanen's roast? Yeah, back at our office at a time when we didn't have any fancy studios. If you needed to shoot a video, you rigged up a setup somewhere and that was it. In front of Sauli Vilén's workstation, and a couple of office chairs had been placed where you sat, and Sauli had ordered lunch from Hanko Sushi over there. And then I was watching that roast. Oh man, the live stream is running. There is the Hanko Sushi bag right at Tommi's feet. I was like, no, we could put at least that much thought into the setup so we don't leave that there. But once again the content was good. Tommi was just fantastic.

Fantastic, fantastic.

Personalize that story, and Kotipizza's story was amazing, but there was a competitor.

The competitor's sushi bag.

And a good autumn foliage.

Yeah, and I had to start the live streams myself in the beginning. At some point Erno would come whenever he had time from his other work to push the button to start the live stream, but no. I remember the Technopolis roast at Technopolis's office. The company was listed back then, so I think I was still setting up the live stream myself on Inderes.fi, and I just told him something like, tell us about yourself while I get this live stream running on Inderes.fi, so we started from such basic things.

Right, but the point remains that you just start doing things, and then through that we now have nice, viable setups and so on. Do you have anything? Do you have any revelations from along the way? What do you want to share now? Now that you can't get fired anymore, for example, now they'll come out.

There are still two and a half days left. You never know, I could somehow epicly mess up still. I've certainly tried. I actually tried to think about that question for a long time. Would there be anything? I've felt that we generally have a pretty open discussion culture here. You are allowed to speak up. And then I haven't had any inside information in my possession, at least as far as I understand, if things went there, and I don't have any right now either. What could I blurt out. I don't know, even our next earnings release, I don't feel like there's anything there that you'd get fired for anyway. We've had an open discussion culture here where you are allowed to bring up both shortcomings and strengths. Nothing comes to mind for that at least right now.

Well, how about then? Discussions have already started on our forum. Naturally nostalgia, wistful moods and. And then this, that big shoes to fill and a big loss for Inderes. What? How would you respond to these?

You can approach that in many ways, I think, and it's true that in a way me, Verneri, and Inderes. Have been a very unique combination, and you shouldn't always think. Or at least I wouldn't start setting that as an expectation if they are recruiting a direct successor for me. Or if they were recruiting a person for a completely different role. I'm not involved in these processes, so I don't know. So I don't want people to think of the newcomer as the new Verneri. That's pretty big. Perhaps the preconception that this has been very. I've built this role, and I've been given the fortune and freedom to build it very much in my own image. And I've made the most of it. If you see me live, I think I'm pretty much the same as I am in front of the camera.

That. And many have said that it feels like we've met before when we see each other live, even if the other person had only seen me through the camera. So. In a way, much like Oscar Wilde says, be yourself, because everyone else is. Everyone else is already taken, so the same applies here, that an identical Verneri is hardly going to be found. Nor does there necessarily need to be one. And in a way, it's also easy for many to think when someone who has been responsible for a significant share of Inderes's video views leaves. There is a big gap to fill. That is, that is very true.

And of course, the company has a big task in encouraging its own staff to grow their personal brands, find new talents, and develop them further within the company. And fortunately such people can already be found, but at the same time it is also an opportunity to rethink quite a few things. At least I approach my own work with some humility, knowing that dinosaur thinking is probably already creeping into my head somewhere, for example. Short-form video on social media. I've had a few hits over the years, but I don't think I've been all that good at them, whereas on YouTube I have. Even if I'm reasonably good as an employee, there might be some new talent who is really good on TikTok and Instagram. Or who might be an even better writer or find their own format and do that really well. And then in six months time it might turn out that people say it was actually a good thing Verneri left, because when he left, it made room for someone else. That could turn out that way too, and I don't think we can know that very well in advance. Of course in Finland you roughly know those who talk about investing with their own face, but you never know what might rise from the younger ranks or the older crowd.

That's how I'd put it, that they aren't. Maybe those shoes can just be left as they are somewhere. The thing with Verneri's Quarter is that I made it mostly all by myself. I consulted anyone very rarely. Sometimes I sparred with Marianne or some of the analysts. And replacing Verneri's Quarter, perhaps in a way, because it is so strongly personified by me, and the name naturally stays with Inderes, to whom all materials belong, but in principle nothing would stop me from continuing, even though Kasper just threw out before this that I should start making Verneri's Quarter or something. In a way it is so strongly tied to my person that it sort of just moves along. I wouldn't start replacing it directly, unless of course someone is found who could do something identically similar, but we'll see. But you never know.

Well, I figure Verneri is leaving with his boots on and hopefully comes.

You can't even.

Champagne. Then new people and new boots come along, small and large, and people who grow here. I believe that throughout its history and still today, this company has been good at recruiting talent, but also above all at creating an environment where that talent can grow here.

All the prerequisites are here. There have to be. People certainly need to be stubborn, and I can tell you that if anyone is wondering. You have to know how to say no here, because if you say yes to everything, you'll get dragged into every project. You have to know how to say no to many things, but of course also yes to the right ones.

A quick ad: ura.inderes.fi. You can go there to check out our job openings. Or is it careers.inderes.com? Well, anyway, you'll find our careers page there in the subsection of inderes.fi. But Verneri's Quarter, the quarter, your social media content. I'm sure a big question for many is, well, will people still be able to enjoy Verneri's great investment content somewhere and through some channel in the future?

Yes, you will. I certainly have the idea to stay active. We've also had the discussion so far with Aristoi that Aristoi has been a very low-profile investor up to now. So the new fund is intended to be much more accessible, meaning there will certainly be communication about it. I'm active on X, for example, and I intend to stay active on the Inderes forum as well, where there's a lot of great discussion. I think it's a real treasure trove and it's always fun to bounce ideas off people there. I could potentially set up some video channel for Aristoi, or we'll look at the details regarding videos then. I've been more cautious because nothing is set in stone, and of course we need to see how everyday life starts rolling.

Of course, in fund management, I think the most important things are that a) I don't lose people's money and b) we manage to invest it profitably. So those are the most important things for the new stakeholder group, and then I'll think about what ideas come up for videos alongside all of that. But as I've seen, thank you everyone, even though some people have commented. On Verneri's Quarter with those thank-you comments, there's clearly a longing for it, I can see it in the stats, and people have come up. A lot. Even to chat on the street saying they liked it, so it would definitely be nice to keep making those kinds of videos too. Not on such a tight schedule, because if you did it once a week, for example, then to make that quarter well, it actually takes a lot of time, so you have to invest in it. Now, however, portfolio management is the most important thing, but perhaps a bit more loosely. It's definitely coming, but I'll announce more about it when details emerge.

Let's leave it. Let's wait and see. Now you also get to advertise your future employer. If. If someone is interested in piggybacking on Verneri's investment strategy and following you as an investor, how is that possible?

Indeed, a new fund is starting up, and the plan is to practically launch it next month. Of course, all such marketing is heavily regulated, meaning careful disclaimers must be included. But you'll probably always see me walking the streets from now on under a disclaimer jacket, because everything I say can be interpreted to some extent as marketing, but more information on that will follow; the fund has indeed just received its marketing license, so I am of course allowed to talk about it, but its website is right now. We're talking about, still in its early stages, so more information will definitely be coming very soon, but if you want to piggyback, that's of course a very convenient way to join in.

Well, let's wait for more detailed information. Do you have any final regards you want to send to the viewers of Inderes TV?

I want to take this opportunity to say thank you as well. I already thanked everyone a lot in the Quarter, specifically the viewers of the Quarter, but broadly all members of our community. And everyone who has watched my interviews over the years and come to chat on the street or online or wherever and given feedback, I want to thank you. These have been truly amazing 10 years, and in a way the thanks go to Inderes, because without Inderes I wouldn't be at this point now. Thanks to the staff and to you and to all of Inderes.

But the same goes for our entire community of course, that all interactions and discussions with our smart investors have also developed me, so that I often think in my material about what I can teach others, but I've also learned an awful lot back from people, what they in turn throw in from their own observations and thoughts and company-specific insights. This has been an absolute amazing learning journey. And of course learning is a lifelong thing. I hope that this same learning and interaction will continue in the future as well. Then of course I have my usual: read the research, make good stockpickings, and actually make those good stock sales if selling opportunities arise.

Yes, perhaps. Actually, related to what you said, I have to say that working with you too. How many times have we sat here in front of the camera chatting about Revenio, GT, or whatever investment topic, I've also learned an absolute enormous amount about public speaking through you and by working together with you. And. I think all our analysts share in a way the same experience, that you've pushed people out of their comfort zones in a good way and helped them grow and develop as presenters. And you even have presentation training on your second to last workday. You're running it here for our team.

The training will be run with Frans Suhonen, yes.

That too. That continues as well. But thanks again on my own behalf too for this amazing 10-year journey. That we've done together, and all the best for your new challenges. We will surely see and hear from you still, and we'll have Verneri as a guest face on Inderes TV, so nothing else than read the research, make good stockpickings.